Insurance Talk

Part 1: 45 mins – open forum, let’s talk insurance woes.

What’s some bad shit that can happen?
Who hates trying to find burn insurance?
Who has a hard time finding it at a good price?
Who is confident their policy actually covers stuff?
Who has had an incident that was or was not covered? Can we talk about it?
Volunteers? Covered? Anyone?
Let’s talk FIRE damage scenarios – Fireworks, neighbors, loss of income, etc.
And D&O. Sued personally? Now what?
Renting trucks? Who’s on the line for that?
Excluuuuuuusions. Trampolines. Water. Inflatables.
Prohibited items?
Art car liability. Wrecks, anyone?
Waiver, what?
Who sues? Family.
Any attorney burners in the house?

Part 2: 45 mins – Monica and Jason with International Captive Consulting talk solutions and options on how we can build a policy – how does that work?

How can we regionals fund this ourselves, without BMORG, what will it cost?
Can we do this without their help?
Discuss basic insurance needs for all burns and cost per participant, etc.

Burn After Meeting 2023
Insurance Chat – SUMMASHUN

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney or adjuster. I am not permitted to
interpret policy language or coverage – only an agent, working to be the
communicator between our orgs and insurance underwriters/carriers. I
point out areas of interest and exclusions in our policies for further
review and discussion. 

Overview issue: Insurance market is SUPER TIGHT and getting worse for
our orgs/events; it’s becoming increasingly more difficult to find
coverage on everything we need. We are all looking for
underwriters/carriers that will work with us and discuss our exposures.
Courtney is a burner agent licensed in 12 states (so far) and can help
to an extent – there are still some gaps in the market and we have yet
to find solutions for all our needs. 

LLC/NPO needs:

GL – annual policy for year round gatherings, events, art seshes,
fundraisers, etc

D&O – annual policy to cover directors and officers for
mismanagement mistakes 

Property coverage – only if your org owns something super valuable.
Some packages (like from USLI) will include minimal property coverage as
part of their package. Need a physical address where stuff is

Event GL for burn event – orgs are acquiring from ($
– under 5000 combined total daily attendance) or a Lloyd’s policy ($$$$
– any attendance).

Neither of which any org is confident it will cover anything – we are
all buying a piece of paper for landowners and permits. 

**Event helper will only work as long as they don’t add “burns” or
“bonfires” to their excluded event type list. ALWAYS CHECK THIS SECTION
before buying, they may add those at any time. If and when they do,
smaller burns will have a very hard time affording the Lloyd’s

**UPDATE AS OF 11/15/23. Well, my friends, they figured us out. They
have officially added “fire performers” and “bonfires” to their list of
excluded event types. If you choose to prohibit fire performers and
don’t do a bonfire, your event may still qualify.

excluded event types & activities

Activist Rallies, Marches or Literature Distribution; Airshow or
Aircraft Events; Any and all Animals; Event or Show that runs past
2:00am; Event or Show at an exotic / adult venue; Event or Show with
exotic / adult dancers present; Events with fire performers; Armed,
Non-Armed or Private Security; Bicycle Rallies, Races, and Events; Boat
Shows (on the water); Body Piercing or Tattooing services including but
not limited to the insertion of pigment, collagen or any other foreign
substance into or under the skin; Bonfires; Bounce Houses; Bungee
Jumping; Cannabis Related Events; Childcare; Circuses; Color or Foam
Parties; Concerts – Not otherwise classified; Concerts with Rap, Hip
Hop, Heavy Metal, Ska, Punk, or similar types of music; Evangelistic
Events with Faith Healing or Similar Activities; Events with Known
Attendance Prior to the Events Greater than 5,000 People; Events or
Shows promoted as Trance type music shows; Events or Shows taking place
at secret venues; Film Production; Fireworks (Sparklers Acceptable);
Food Eating Contests; Fraternity Events; Go Kart Races; Grad Night; Gun
and/or Knife Shows; Haunted Houses/Attractions; Hang gliding/SkyDiving;
Hay Rides; Heads of State Events; Hot Air Balloon Rides/Events;
Hypnotist; In or On Water Activities; Inflatables; Instructional Classes
– Driver Education, Flying or Health; Laser Tag; Luge; Mechanical
Amusement Devices Including Mechanical Bulls & Amusement Devices;
Mosh Pits; Motorsports; New Years Party (open to Public/not by invite
only); Night Club Shows; Overnight Camping and Retreats; Paintball;
Parachuting; Parades; Parasailing; Political Events or Rallies;
Professional Sports; Pumpkin Chunkin Events; Pyrotechnic show, Flash
boxes, or Laser light production; Raves or Rave Like Events or Shows;
Reality TV Shows; Record Signings in Stores; Renaissance
Fairs/Festivals; Re-Enactments; Rodeo and Roping Events; Roller
Coasters/Sky Coasters; Rummage Sales – Other than for Charities;
Skateboarding; Roller Derby; Roller Skating Events; Ski Events;
SkyDiving; Slam Dancing; Sorority Events; Squat Parties; Swap Meets/Flea
Markets; Swimming and Pool Facilities; Tailgating Events; Temporary
Grandstands; Tobogganing; Tractor Pulls; Trampolines; Triathlons; Wall
Climbing; War Games/Re-enactments; Water Events; Water Slides

HNOA (hired and nonowned auto) – provides auto liability protection
for Org for rented and borrowed trucks. This is added to GL. Can be
purchased a standalone policy but is very costly $2500++

Accident for volunteers: Everyone needs, impossible to find. GL &
event does not cover bodily injury to volunteers and PHLY not writing
us. They understand our events are run by volunteers, not a market for

Active shooter coverage – our burns are soft targets for attacks (as
yucky as that is to say) and with zero liability of the org, these
policies pay out for deaths, funerals, therapy. 

What makes our events so scary to underwriters?

  • Overnight camping with BYOB, the uncontrolled drinking, people
    can leave and/or volunteer – potentially intoxicated 

  • Wildfire risk

What are best practices to make our orgs more desirable to

  1. BIGGEST THING – be more than only your big burn event. NO
    insurance co wants to insure an NPO that only produces a large camping
    event. We need way more year round art activities to be considered an
    art Org. Meetings, art activities, gatherings and shows to increase art
    in communities, outreach, peer instruction, collaboration,

  2. Hire outside 3rd party EMT and fire, not participants. Get some
    outsiders and have them take the liability for the big stuff. All our
    insurance policies exclude medical errors or omissions/professional

Other suggestions during discussion from attendees:

  1. Have your NPO own an LLC that puts on the burn event. If LLC get
    sued, shut it down and start over. 

  2. Your NPOs and LLCs must be totally legit with all forms and docs
    and compliance meetings etc to protect the board members. Any slacking
    here and our corporate veil can be pierced and people sued

Solution in progress: 

Data gathering!! We need HISTORY AND INFO for potential purchasing
group or captive. We need 5 years of data on all our orgs (prior
insurance, losses, etc) to pitch anything anywhere. Please
complete the survey💜

THANK YOU to all who attended my insurance chat. It was awesome to
meet all of you and hear how you’ve been doing things and I look forward
to lots more conversations. Thank you for being willing to share your
org event history so I can, hopefully, find/build a solution that works
for everyone. 

Session presenters:

Date & time: Saturday, 04 Nov 2023 10:00am

Location: Ellingwood B

Tagged: backoffice

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